April 17, 2008
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Socrates_Cafe: Would we survive without money?
Current topics at Socrates_Cafe
1. Ayn Rand vs Albert Camus, Who Would Win? Which philosopher(s) could take either or both of them?
This topic will be discussed at the Socrates_Cafe site2. Is capitalism immoral?
3. Would we survive without money?
4. Is true democracy possible in our society?
5. Are there universal standards of moral behavior?
Would we survive without money?
Long before there was a monetary system, there was a bartering system, wherein people traded goods or services for the same. Barter has existed as long as two people have desired something the other has. The system works best when the two parties agree upon the worth of the items to be traded. Extensive lists outlining the worth of various items have been found in archeological digs in the Middle East and Egypt. Before there was money, bartering was at least as sophisticated as our current stock market.
There is currently a grassroots effort to return to a bartering system.
Personally, I don't see that it would be possible to return to a system which is exclusively based on barter. Too few of us today have goods or services which we could exchange. Most of us engage in unskilled or intellectual labors which are not in high demand by our fellow man. However, I think a system combining the two ideas could be viable. On a large scale, a monetary system is almost essential due to the fragmentary nature of our world's infrastructure. On a small, local scale however, if you have the goods or services to provide then that could easily be exchanged for similar "goods." Say you have a garden and produce too much for your own use. Taking the fruits and vegetables to the local farmers market, you could then exchange your excess for fruits and vegetables which you did not grow or for credit against future goods which they do not currently have in stock. When we enter into the realm of credit, it comes close to the monetary system we currently have. In this case, the farmers' market might have vouchers from other local businesses which have traded their services for goods. The market might in turn use these as a rate of exchange among those clients who are not interested in exchanging their fruits and vegetables for more of the same.
The barter system could also be used on an international scale via the internet, but it works best among individuals and small businesses. Corporations and nations are at a disadvantage in attempting a barter system because of the scale of the exchange... it's just to complex. Reducing exchange to numbers then, back to a monetary system, is the only easy way for such large groups to exchange goods and services, especially when taxes are entered into the equation.
The individual could survive without money. I doubt very much that nations could. However, if we are speaking of money as in bills and coins, then yes, I think everyone could survive without money. Having worked in a bank for three years, I'd have to say that I despise money. It's disgusting and filthy. (I was practically OCD by the time I left.) They say money does not have enough germs to make people sick, however, having worked in jobs which cause a disproportionate exposure to money, I have to say that there's no way the money does not contribute illness. Cumulatively speaking, people who handle money day in and day out get sick from it, and then they get other people sick from it because the people who handle money the most, usually have the least, so they can't afford to take off from work and get better. (end mini-rant)
In this age of technology, it is perfectly plausible that you could survive without having actual money in your pocket. I, for one, would much prefer having a little plastic card than money, if I could help it. Unfortunately, there are places which do not accept plastic, and the banks themselves make exclusive use of plastic unfeasible with the various fees they apply. But if certain changes were made in how banks do business and the technology which allows people to use plastic became wide spread in even the most rural of settings, cash money would become obsolete.
So... can we survive without money? Yes. It's entirely possible to survive without money. Will we be able to do it any time soon? 'Fraid not.
April 17th
This is the sixth day of the Cerealia.
Dedicated to Machendrana, the ancient and powerful Indian God of rain, an annual religious event called the Chariot Festival of the Rain God is held in the Himalayan kingdom of Nepal. Beginning today, the festival continues for approximately eight consecutive weeks.
Comments (6)
I think you will find the world moving more and more to a "moneyless" form of virtual credit exchange. Money is, after all, merely a mutually-agreed -upon medium of valuing and of exchanging values.
Almost all my bills are now paid via EFT (electronic file transaction). The only human who actually looks at the transactions is me and in most cases the EFT is automatic. NO human and no actual money is involved.I've linked you
Dear Candace,
I've always believed in a true socialist society, where no money ever trades hands, and every member of society produces for the society, and the society thrives. Of course no socialist society has ever in point of fact worked out, and usually can only survive as a totalitarian state, which is the exact opposite of what socialism is supposed to represent.
I admire the "new capitalism' being fostered by sites on the internet such as craigslist and ebay, which connect those who want something with those who have it and want to dispose of it. This could very well be the beginning of a true worldwide barter system.
As long as we have nations, we'll have money. I've been contemplating the inflationary rise of goods and services in the U.S. since my birth, in 1953. When I was around 10 or so, a good salary would be about $10,000 a year. I made about that much a year in my 20s, but by then, the average had jumped almost twofold. Now, $50,000 a year is almost a joke, but would have made someone rich back in the 60s., Money in the States isn't worth as much as it used to be. I used to wonder why in some countries goods and services seemed to be far too expensive, and yet people received far less in wages than I would consider average. Now I'm seeing the same thing happen in America.
I miss your comments.
Michael F. Nyiri, poet, philosopher, fool
People are afraid to change, but you made a good point to incorporate the bartering system in small scales within the mainstream monetary system. I suspect some of the organizations such as co-ops are already doing it. I can imagine that people will not have to carry any money with the help of high techs like you said. But think of the good things that bartering may bring. At the least, it would get people closer connected in a world of much virtuality.
@Wes_Gumbo - Definitely, I think on a small scale, the barter system is a great way to bring communities together and restore the connections we have all lost by hiding in our homes.
BTW... I can't comment on your site. I've tried. The comment box is missing and the icons never appear, though I can mouse-over their positions and see where the icons should appear.
@harmony0stars - I was probably doing some updates. You are welcome to try again. I love comments.
Couple of points...monetary systems are more apparent to some than others. Those truly gifted don't give it much thought. The gift provides without the need of money. As for how physically filthy money is, I most certainly agree. If you take any one bill, perhaps it can be argued that it isn't significantly germ ridden. If you take a mass of money equivalent to the mass of the worst public toilet...well, you would be better off licking that toilet. As for industry using the barter system, there is a widespread movement, even outside the internet, to do just that in small to mid sized companies. A small company is considered to be anything around one hundred employees. They exchange materials, services, even manpower. There are dramatic advantages to it. I was involved in an exchange of services as a robotics consultant that would have involved a fee of approximately $4000. I received instead a box of phased out robotics control boards, some with minor faults, but easily repaired. The value of the contents of that box, short of any effort to get a better return by bartering, is approximately $70,000. So you see, it is in industry where the barter system, is not only possible, but where it shows the greatest promise. Another example: I battered my services as a manager of a plastics distributorship in exchange for the company's trash. I created an art form with recycled industrial plastics that has provided for many.